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WOW exactly my points with regards to the usual leftist approach, which was summed up nicely:

those with perspectives that differ from their own
need to get it straight
others who don't share their perspectives are outright liars
those who don't share their perspectives expect them to just sit there and take it.

None of those are my thoughts or opinions - who's are they?

Who posted them!

If the points I make are taken as attacks that's beyond my ability to control. I expect honesty and facts - if one who is confronted by either feels attacked I'd say THEY have a problem.

See how they are disingenous? I bring up, with respect to IMMIGRATION, that the world cannot expect the US to solve it's problems. With respect to Iraq it was OUR problem as Saddam was funding and encouraging ANTI-US terrorism. Of course now we're going to get bogged down in denials of that so let's just skip that shall we?

Anyway, yes, Iraq has turned, thanks largely to the Democrats and a certain vocal minority, into somewhat of a quagmire at the moment and there are those who now want to ensure it turns into another VietNam by ensuring we leave before the job is done. This time we can't do that, though, or we will pay a huge price.

Linda, in your second response to me you said, "It simply doesn't work for you to put words in my mouth". Isn't that exactly what you did when you changed what I said about immigration into something against Bush and his decisions regarding Iraq?

Oh, so Linda is from the BUSH & CHENEY ARE CRIMINALS - IMPEACH BUSH & CHENEY crowd... I get it now...

You were as outspoken against Clinton too, I suppose, when he was PROVEN to have committed perjury as you are now against Bush & Cheney regarding a bunch of lunatic, unsubstantiated allegations... each President in our history has come upon issues that required decisive action. Each I'm sure had opponents who claimed their actions were criminal. In some cases, like Nixon and Clinton for instance, the allegations stood up. So far the allegations against Cheney and Bush seem to be a bunch of baloney for the most part. You want to be more specific or are you just going to continue with yet another false load of accusations around assignment of questionable motivations to make yourself feel better while accomplishing basically nothing? Did I say that? I wasn't the first, was I?

Van - which rebuttal. There were three and though the last was quite long winded I don't think Linda ever seriously challenged anything I said.

It is the very things Bush did that helped put a stop to the very "criminal alliances of people who have no political affiliation to any nation and whose goals are to kill as many people as they possibly can" although she got the rest wrong: "regardless of who these people are or where they come from." They're actually targeting very specific groups based on who they are, where they're from and what they believe.

Next she makes this ridiculous statement: "How about for starters, telling U.S. corporations to stop selling all the components to make WMDs"

Which corporations? What components? I regret that calling you on it when you're full of crap is seen as an attack by you - how is it you want me to inform you I know you don't have a clue next time?

The terrorists are getting WMD from rogue states, not from US corporations. Please if you don't want to be called an idiot, don't act like one!

Oh, next Linda tries to draw a connection between the alleged illegality of Bush/Cheney and illegal immigration. TRY TO STAY ON TOPIC. What Bush/Cheney did regarding the war on terror has little to do with the ongoing issue of illegal immigrants. Plus you're lying about things as usual. You're obviously part of the "we say so" crowd who expects others to just believe whaever you say is true because "we say so". Guess again.

I already said let's just do the same thing Mexico does to immigrants, let's adopt laws similar to theirs and enforce them - would that make you happy? Best look into what Mexico does before you agree though.

You're expecting the US to provide the world with employment, social services, health care, family planning, etc. You're lying about what the US is doing and isn't doing, by the way.

And no, building the barrier will NOT exacerbate a problem. Failure of the people and governments at the SOURCE of the problem to deal with it is what will exacerbate the problem.

It's pretty clear you don't know much about the issue - the budget problems we're already experiencing due to illegal immigrants and all the services they need. It's not at all what you're claiming. You're just regurgitating talking points. You don't know all the crimes that are being committed by illegals, for instance.

So what you're saying is that tax dollars SHOULD be available to fund the murder of the unborn? Take a stand! I know you can!

People who claim to be progressives/liberals only seem to be able to meaninglessly attack those who disagree with them, which you've done three times so far. Good luck with that.

You say we're a nation of laws. You say they should be enforced. OK, go ahead and start notifying all those who broke our IMMIGRATION LAWS that they have to leave - NOW!

You do have your shoes on ass-backwards it seems. You're all up about how we're a nation of laws - until we get to a law you don't like!

Your hatred for Bush, Cheney and all things corporate (except those things that enhance YOUR life) is glaringly obvious.

While we're talking about writing down the names one wants to call and personal attacks one wants to make, why not put Bushboy at the top of the list? Then you can write down the repeated references to having one's shoes on backwards - shows how ignorant you are. At the beach we don't usually wear shoes!

Van, the hysterics come from the pro-illegal immigrant side! You try and make some connection between those who are for sensible immigration and religious fundamentalism and Bush backers. Would it surprise you to learn I think Bush has made some major mistakes? Of course someone like you (and Linda) can't reciprocate and admit to ANYTHING he's done right, I bet. Prove me wrong, please.
Or prove, like with Linda, your own words reflect YOU more than anyone.

My comment about the corporations and the shack was over the top - intended to point out that while you bash corporations you can't live without them. Actually no, it's NOT that - it's that you CAN, you just CHOOSE NOT TO!

You're one of the "war crimes" crowd... it is rather pointless talking to you. Since you raised the "we have to fight them over there so we won't have to fight them over here" argument I guess it's fair that I point out that under Clinton we did the opposite and about 3,000 of US died in one day. Now that we're doing it this way yes, we've hit 3,000 casualties (unlike the morbid I don't hang on every death for political reasons so no, I don't know the exact count today) but it took YEARS to do so and we've eliminated a lot more of them in the process. It's not a crime to do what you need to do to stamp out the evils that confront one.

Nice excuses on why you are as firmly attached to the corporate teat as anyone! I bet you also just GOT to have your Starbucks to start the day, too, don't you?

Since I'm neither sheep-like nor simple minded (as evidenced by the fact I haven't fallen for the usual lies about illegal immigration, evil corporations, Bush/Cheney, etc. as you clearly have) your last comment is just plain ridiculous.

OH THIS IS RICH. You admit the Clintons and Democrats in general get tons of money from corporations, as does Obama. "Rodham" Clinton only escaped being convicted in a huge swindle because a key witness conveniently died and important papers got "lost" (until they "appeared" in the White House some time later) during the Clinton administration. And you talk about Bush & Clinton being criminals? What is your suggestion for an alternative?

Maybe I'll go back and read that link you gave again, but the thing is it seemed to be more of the same loony "liberal" lies to me the last time and I doubt it's changed much.

Speaking of "liberal" and "progressive", those terms usually refer to someone who's willing to try something new and different. Not people like you who are doomed to make the same dumb mistakes over and over again.

Yeah that's right, when I want hard news I'll go to... ROLLING STONE?


Actually I don't live in a corporate box - I have a very nice house thank you and I'm about to make an even nicer addition to it. As for brainwashed - from what you say you're referring to yourself, not me.

You refer to a play, one you claim is apparently (says you) based on fact, from WW II and then try to draw some parallel with current events.

Fiction is fiction but yes, you've just clearly demonstrated you can't grasp that simple concept.

Here's where your analogy breaks down even further. ONE GUY, not a corporation, pulled a fast one in your FICTIONAL account. Are there people profiteering off war in Iraq? Sure, just as there were people profiteering off the oil-for-food program the UN set up. Just as Saddam no doubt bribed what weapons inspectors he could - the proof is out there but no doubt you will turn a blind eye to it. Why are we talking about the Iraq war in a thread about illegal immigrants in the first place? Because you know how much your pro-immigrant arguments suck, most likely., and are loath to present them.

The first lie from the article you referenced is the claim that Bush appointed contractors in Iraq.

And who shot the video in question and under what journalistic standards? The same ones that operate in the middle east as usual?

Linda can't think of anything original to say so she posts:

You know, that comment up above by Greg about how he believes our options are to either (1) put up with corporations as they exist and function today, or (2) live in an "8 X 10 shack out in the woods without any corporate assistance of any kind whatsoever at all," is truly ... well, Greg, can't you picture a few other options besides those two?
Linda | 08.31.07 - 8:11 pm | #

CANDOR - great post. Too bad you're throwing pearls to swine...

Linda typically avoids giving a straight answer to a question but reveals her answer nonetheless.

Jim.R, the power-brokers behind the North American Union would LOVE to have all of us stay focused on and fighting with one another over the "is it a conspiracy theory only believed by nut cases" aspect of this little good for me/good for you/wink-wink project.

Rather than wondering if it's a conspiracy or not, let's just discuss how it's affecting our lives and whether it's a keeper.
Linda | 09.05.07 - 12:56 pm | #

As for me - Europe formed the European Union. Why shouldn't we form a North American Union in response?

Am I seeing this right? Got to go back and re-read perhaps. FOR open borders for all illegal immigrants but AGAINST open borders when it comes to legitimate, legal business people(truckers)?

You guys have outdone yourselves!

"My 12-year old daughter CAN'T WAIT to get a job working in the agricultural fields around here"

What a coincidence. I'm looking into buying a farm! Give me her contact info!

"As a matter of fact, I'll bet parents will pull their high school kids out of all those academic- and sports-enriching summer camps, just so their kids can find out what REAL WORK is."

yaTHINK? Somehow I doubt it - but you go on believing whatever you want to (snicker).

"Think of all the money they'll save by not having to keep their kids in back-to-back summer camps for 3 months, just so their poor kids will have something to do all summer."

This post shows how ridiculous your logic is, despite the obvious sarcasm intended. it doesn't make sense! I bet you & your pals here won't even understand what I'm saying.

I know tourists who have been robbed in Mexico's interior, so driving a truck through would be an even bigger target.

I know tourists who have been killed in the US and Canada, so what?

Wow, I know I would be called racist if I even THOUGHT of posting anything remotely like this:

I'll be pickin' cotton with the pickaninnies, just a- shuckin' and a-jivin'. Now before you say anything, I mean that respectfully. And after the pickin' I expect to be truckin' it all to Mexico, waiting to be be hijacked by Canadians and sent packin' to Honduras.
Send lawyers, guns and money. Get me outta this.
Van | 09.06.07 - 12:46 am | #


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